Good morning and good afternoon for the ones coming from Australia, and I guess goodnight for the ones coming from the US. Welcome to our webinar today with UNSW Adam and Chris from Klyp. Really looking forward to it. So let me just find my slides here, give me one second. There we go. Yeah, so we have a few things just before we get started. And then the last thing I just let us know how much you know about campaign tracking and then the last thing I just want to say here before we get started with the web. that the web that will be on demand afterwards so you can always go back on the web so if you have anything just put them I'm a huge arsenal fans so I'm on the chat and the chat and the polls and make sure everything is all the questions that I'm on the polls and make sure everything is all the questions that I actually asked also in the webinar so if you have anything just put them there. I'm a huge arsenal fan so I'm on the edge these days and I know that Adam is a city fans so there's a lot of stuff going on there we've had a lot of jokes about that. We also both both me and Adam actually riding one of these butcher spikes every day. So that's, that's also pretty fun. But more relevant to this. I've been working with the digital marketing for the last many, many years and Martech solutions in general. And so was part of one of the first review sites out there trust pilot from the very beginning when it was like, yeah, there's seven people or something like that on a on the top of a painting store. And already back then starting to use the tools for web tracking. We did a lot of split testing and we had to understand where the different visitors would be coming from to get the split test correct. So there's a lot of stuff going on there already with campaign tracking. And then I've been working with Falcon. That's a social media management platform. 23 is for videos. That's the platform we actually using today for the webinar. And then that simplified deep dive, which is the same. So what we will cover today is we'll do a short introduction. That's something I'll be doing an introduction to campaign data. What is it? How does it work? All that kind of stuff. Then we're going to talk with Adam about how the situation was at the University of New South Wales before they acquired acutics and the problems that were there. Then we're going to look a bit at what he can do with that data now that it's been sorted. And then clip and Chris will go through how you can use structured data and for what which specific reasons so that you can really build out some strong foundations for working with data and campaign data in general. But I wanted to start out with a short introduction to my two co-speakers here in the webinar. So I have Adam and Chris. Adam, so how did you get started with the digital marketing? So I've been around the digital marketing area for probably about 15 years now. So my initial foray was in actually closer to your place in London. So I started there doing a bit of Google AdWords for an affiliate marketing company. And then back in those days, we actually rang Google headquarters to get our ads approved. So Google didn't have any automation in that space, which I'm sure they have nice automation now. And then so I did that for a couple of years and then slowly progressed away from kind of digital ads or account management towards analytics. And given I also had a history in SEO and SEM, I think it was all kind of that same world. So really kind of piqued my interest a few years ago, the analytics space in Google, using Google Analytics. And at that time, I did start at the university. So yeah, it's been a journey, as you'll see. Yeah, definitely. How about you, Chris? So how did you get started with digital marketing? Thanks, Christian. I started my career in education as well, developing learning objects for distance learning students in the Outback, teaching them math, English, science, studies, sociology, technical by trade. And over the 20 years that I've been running ClipNow, it really became apparent in that technology piece is the analytics, the data capturing, structured data in particular, to make sure that the marketing side of our business has got the right insights to be able to make informed decisions. So yeah, over the years, across many different sectors and industries, from an agency side. That's brilliant. Yeah. So a lot of experience here around the table. So I start to get some results in on the poll that I just ran. So Chris, what do you think about this? So I can see that we have 25% that has no idea what you termed DTID is, or CID, and the difference between clicks all and link clicks and meter. Is this a surprise to you? A little bit high, maybe. But overall, I think each of the questions here gives a lot of opportunity for growth throughout the presentation. And I think you'll get a lot of knowledge from Adam and subsequently some of the information I've got for you today. So yeah, good spread. That's brilliant. Yeah. So I'm going to steal the screen here and run back to my presentation. So I want to give a little bit of introduction to the whole campaign tracking. So campaign tracking is a method. You choose to analyze how users interact with digital campaigns. So that's something you can do with your web analytics tool, but it's also something. And actually, it's kind of the same because a web analytics tool is also within the Facebook business manager. They're just using pixels to get the website data into their tools. But there's a lot of different metrics you have to look at. And those are part of the digital campaign tracking. Basically, how it works is that you have an ad running. So we have these ads running on our LinkedIn site. People can click them and then you're basically taken to a website. So in the link there, you see there's a UTM. That's the Google Analytics tracking. We have a few parameters that we are appending here. UTM sources, LinkedIn. So now we know that the click that came to our web page came from LinkedIn. We know that the medium was our social page department. And we know that the campaign was this ebook PF. Naming conventions campaign. We also know that the content has a global side to it. So it's someone from wherever in the world. We haven't put any targeting to this. And then the last piece here where you see there's a red part, the and CID equals social page and then a code. That's Adobe Analytics tracking code. The thing is in Acutix, we run both Google Analytics and Adobe Analytics because we have the customers on both sides of the table. And we want to do both ourselves to understand all of the capabilities of these. To be able to pick the information that are residing within these two parameters, you're using something called the tag manager. And if you're not using a tag manager, then you have a lot of work to place the right tags on all of your campaign pages. But basically, there's a few different ones like Tealium, Adobe Launch and Google Tag Manager, just to name three of them. But they basically ensure that all pages are actually picking up the information when people come. These will also launch pixel tracking. And so if you want to look at, for example, the data within your LinkedIn analytics, then you can have pixels from LinkedIn running on the site. But else, this is basically campaign tracking. So you have the stats. So we can see here that 75,000 people saw this post. We had 270 that clicked through. And we can see a few small things. Other than that, in our LinkedIn, we don't have that much going on on our LinkedIn text structure. But in our Google Analytics, it looks like this for this specific campaign. So we can see that of the 270 clicks, 98 actually made it to the homepage. And we had 73% of those actually bouncing right after they were there for 30 seconds. And also, we can see here that there was none of them converting. So that's not a really good campaign tool that we have been running here. But it's an example of campaign tracking. And it's a lot of information that we would like to understand so that we can optimize our campaign flow. Why should you care about campaign tracking? Well, there's a few very good reasons for that. First of all, in 2022, $80 billion was going into ad fraud. So that's quite a lot of money, I would say. It's a lot of the advertisement budget out there that are simply just running directly into ad fraud. And what is ad fraud? Well, I had a webinar with Augustin Faux, who's an expert within this. And it's basically fake apps, fake websites. You can just basically set up a whole farm of different web pages that looks like a real web page, but it's not. And all that is going on there is bots. And those bots will click on your ads and go to your web page and do certain things. But you can spot that and you can actually remove it. Especially when you use campaign tracking, then you can actually see which of your campaigns are running to the wrong places, because you can have that part of your structure. Another thing that should really open the eyes is Airbnb. So due to Corona heading, they decided to slash most of their budget. They spent $800 million less in advertisements, but they didn't see any results change from this. And that's something where you can really see that a lot of the ads that are running are maybe not making that much of a difference. And that's, again, one of the reasons why you should really do this campaign tracking. So you can see which of your ads and which of the campaigns that are really actually giving you the results that you'd like. And then we have another example, a little bit of the same, but the Procter & Gamble basically cut $200 million in their advertisement budget and had the same experience as Airbnb. They were able to see exactly the same results. During our talk here with Adam and Chris, we've been looking a bit at some research and there's two professors from Oxford that has been doing an analysis of more than a thousand campaigns across more than 500 brands in most regions and industries around the world. Looking at campaigns, looking at what kind of media mix would you actually get the best results from? And what they found was that there's no silver bullet. So we're not going to be able to kill any vampires here easily and just say, this is the way to do it. It's actually different. It's different when you look at what kind of outcomes you're interested in getting. And it's different when you look at what industry you're coming from and what kind of company you are. So for some companies, doing cinema works really well together with the Facebook and the TV campaign. For others, it's something completely different. But they found that there's no silver bullet and therefore we need to actually analyze what media mix is the correct for us. Because one thing they did find is that if you just spread your media budget across all the different channels that you can put it into, then you have terrible results. So that was like the worst performing segments. This is how they put it out in their conclusion. While no campaign structure is best at all metrics, we find that a large number of campaigns use a dominated strategy, meaning that there are alternatives which would be better in every single case. This is a surprising result. It's suggestive of a lack of knowledge or a lack of focus in advertising budget allocations. And I think when I read this, that there's a huge opportunity for all of the people that are participating in this webinar and in general for doing things better and actually getting a competitive advantage. Yeah. I think one of the reasons why it's so hot is that this is probably a live picture from campaign tracking in a large enterprise, right? There's so many different things going on. You have different agencies in different regions. You have different people working, creating campaigns and digital links and so forward. So there's so much different stuff going on and it's so hard to really focus if there's no structure to it. And that's why I love this picture. It's from the Lego store here in Copenhagen, where you just have the Lego perfectly aligned and you have everything sorted. And that's really what you want with your data. You want it to always be sorted. I build a lot of Lego. I have three kids, two boys, and they just, they want to build Lego every weekend. And when you need to find Lego pieces, it's really tough. And it takes a very long time to build anything meaningful. While if things are a little bit structured, just the colors and stuff like that, it's so much easier. And this is really like, I think very much the same when it comes to digital media. But yes, that's a little bit of an introduction to the whole digital marketing campaign tracking. I want to give the word to Adam. I hope you're ready for that, Adam. And please do get off the mute there. There we go. Hi there. Absolutely. Thanks, Chris. That was a great introduction. I love Lego as well. I've got three kids myself, keeping me busy all the time, especially picking it up. That's always fun. But going back to why we're here, how campaign data anarchy was solved at UNSW. I can go for the short answer and you'll probably won't get much out of it, but it's the usual short answer. I think it's a good story, which is people, processes and products. But I'll just go back to my personal journey a little bit, because I think that's an important part. As I mentioned at the top, I was working in London, a startup doing Google AdWords and working in page search and also SEO, creating landing pages for those different vendors. And then I came back to Sydney and then I worked for a company called News Corp, just basically pretty much client side my entire career. So then transitioned from News Corp to Fairfax Media, at the time, the second largest media organization. And then I ended up moving to the University of New South Wales, which is, I think, hovering around the top 50 universities in the world, according to the Times ranking, I believe. And we have over 5,000 staff, over 40,000 students going across a range of faculties and subjects and research centers. And that in itself, I don't know if you've noticed my badge here, but I've got, this is my 10th year at the university. So I initially, my first role was as a search engine analyst, maintaining the paid media and search engine optimization. And what I found at that stage is we were receiving, or the university was receiving reports that were straight, were custom reports for paid clicks that had many question marks around. And it was my job to kind of ascertain what the truth was. And after a while, as I also mentioned before, moved across from that, paid advertising towards analytics, because no one was doing it at the time. I was a lone ranger. But soon enough, it became numerous digital cowboys. So every faculty would have their own digital marketing person or paid advertising person, or even at a later date, there were analytics people as well. And we were kind of not on that same boat. We were kind of all fighting off each other for attention and for that to acquire that new tech. And at the time, I was using Google Analytics. And it was around the time when Google Tag Manager came around. And that was interesting in and of itself. After I implemented it on the main kind of UNSW website, I found that we actually ended up with about eight to 10 instances of Google Tag Manager across the university. So that was kind of the beginning of kind of, I guess, a reflection of where the university was at in terms of, you know, that's the maturity of digital marketing. But, you know, I think the North Star was always there, which was the unified view, or the single source of truth. And, you know, we were in that kind of comfort zone before the new tech arrived. You know, the leadership were happy where things were. We were, you know, I was kind of struggling to get my view across because it was relatively quite new at the time. I think it might be a good time to post that poll about the data dictionary or solution design reference document. So I think, you know, the new eventually the new tech did arrive. And, you know, it has the promise to solve all your problems. And that actually was the trigger that said that, you know, that gave us the question, you know, what do we do? What do we do with it? And that's where I think a, you know, the solution design reference document, which is the blueprint for your analytics implementation is a, you know, that serves as the answer to what do we do with it? It connects us to those business outcomes, to the marketing strategy, to the recruitment strategy as well. And, you know, in this kind of view of the story arc, which is actually based on, it's called the man in the hole story arc. If you share this slide later, people will be able to click the link. There's some cool videos about story arcs. And I think that kind of suits the journey that we were on because when that came in, that new tech came in, it wasn't necessarily a crisis, but it was definitely a challenge. And I think that, you know, that challenge allows us to get out of our comfort zone. And, you know, we signed this multi-year subscription to Adobe Analytics. And, you know, that's where, you know, we decided, you know, data foundation has to be the way forward. Otherwise, you know, we won't get the benefits that have come out of it. So, you know, what do we do with it? And I was listening to one of your previous webinars, Christian, with Frederick Werner. He's one of the kind of the kings of web analytics in the industry worldwide. Amazing that you guys were able to hire him. But I was following him for the last kind of couple of years, amazing articles. And I think in that session, you mentioned that, you know, capturing data is like buying a gym pass. And as with all presentations nowadays, I think you have to have a bit of chat GPT in there. So this is my piece. I asked why would capturing the data be like buying a gym pass? And it gave a pretty good answer. So have a read of that. But, you know, it's not just about capturing the data. It's, you know, why are we capturing it? What kind of data are we capturing? And what do we want out of it? So that's something that's at the core of all of it. And so after kind of building... Two seconds, yeah, because I think we need to tell a little bit about what a SDR is or a solution. Absolutely. Because I can see that we have quite a few of our viewers that are not familiar with the expressions. Yeah, perfect. So SDR, the solution design reference document, it's basically like the architectural design documents for building a house. So you have the blueprint of what variables you want to capture, what data points you want to capture from the website. And then that's connected to your Adobe Analytics implementation. And at UNSW, we've got a live version of this where people are able to go in and edit. We've got the Adobe Analytics Power user group that frequently go in and make edits when they're making updates to variables. So it gives us a bit of a springboard to be able to amplify and update that data. And then whenever someone's, you know, not sure about, you know, what a certain variable or data element is within their reporting dashboard, they're able to go onto that Confluence and it actually coincides with, I think, one of the new Adobe Analytics updates is that live data dictionary. So we'll be able to link that straight up. So it also gives us an advantage that if we ever move away from Adobe Analytics to another platform, we'll still be able to use that blueprint in other platforms. That makes a lot of sense. So I guess in that journey, we're working about here at the Aspirant Steps, about to climb Competence Mountain. So that was about 12 months ago. You know, we recognized our current limitations and we had to build, find out a way to get to that ideal, that North Star. And, you know, it can be a daunting task. As you can imagine, we had about a thousand websites and we had to consolidate those down. You know, the SEO guys, we're demanding that, you know, instead of having, you know, those 150 subdomains that we move to a folder structure that we unify all the tracking and, you know, as we're, and that was kind of the, that was initially a tough pill to swallow to be, and you had to be very brave to get there, to get out of that desert of doubt as that image has. And that, that brought me to a couple of webinars, which I found fascinating as I kind of got into Adobe Analytics and what we could get out of it and to get that unified view. I found Dr. Augustine Faux. He's, as you mentioned in the beginning as well about, you know, the, how many, how many bots were, were actually, you know, coming in through paid, paid campaigns. There was also other questions on the way. Can we integrate paid campaign data into Adobe Analytics to get that unified view? And then what will we see? So Dr. Augustine had a fascinating webinar. I'll, I'll hope that those, those that are on this webinar right now, you know, have a look at it. It's, it's, it's an eye opener. It really is. And, you know, the, in the beginning of my journey in 2005, onwards, I had my doubts about some of the clicks that were coming through because, you know, you'd upweight your, your spend, and then you sometimes were struggling to get an equal, you know, return. So that was one. And then another was Andy Crestedina's, you know, how to use that data. That was another webinar that I watched and it brought me down to the road to, you know, meeting you, Christian on a kind of late evening here. I think it was early, it was your summer, our winter, probably about the same temperature, I think. And, you know, we, we got you on guys on board for a proof of concept. And, and again, the whole of the whole purpose of the proof of concept was to actually bring in the paid media data. into Adobe Analytics and prove that it could be done. But that process that took about three to four months actually brought us down another road, which was we had some unclean data, or in this case, there were paid clicks going to non-tracked pages. And so 12% in this proof of concept of paid clips were going to pages that didn't have Adobe Analytics present. Now, when you think about a campaign and 12%, well, you would really fight tooth and nail to get that 12%. So it was, again, another eye-opener. And then we went down a little bit further and we found that 54% of the clicks had some form of tracking issue. And this is all discovery while just simply onboarding the Acutix connector. So without doing anything more, we made some large discoveries and we already gained benefit from it. So it took a while. It did take a while to get there. I think there had to be a little bit of buy-in from leadership and from the marketing team. But I think we got there in the end and it did become a proof of concept success. And here we are. We're about halfway through our first year with you guys. And the end result of the proof of concept was that we found out that 66% of all paid clicks had issues. But after fixing those issues, we successfully hit a click-to-visit ratio. And again, it's probably one for the audience out there. If you know your own click-to-visit ratio, we will have a poll up shortly. But this example is just in the proof of concept where we started out with a concerning 0.66 click-to-visit ratio. But by the end of the proof of concept period, we were able to get it up to 97%, which is about a 70% improvement, a 30 basis percentage point improvement, which is phenomenal. And yeah, so that's kind of the beginning of our Acutix relationship. Christian, I think there was a poll for the question. Do you know? I think the first one was, do you know your click-to-visit ratio? No one does, it seems. Okay. So that's interesting. And then if you don't, I mean, if you do, or even if you don't, what do you think your range is? Maybe put that up. Give me one second. Yeah. So that one's an interesting one. I think speaking with Casper, the co-founder of Acutix, there was an indication that we should be reaching over 80%. So that was my initial goal out of the proof of concept. And we got there in the end. Yeah. We'll probably answer here, Adam, because no one knows what the click-to-visit ratio is. No dramas at all. No worries. I think it's an important one. And I think, you know, for onboarding new channels into your marketing mix, it's a good one to use as a bit of a gauge of the quality of them. So here we are. We are now climbing this mountain. And I think it's the perfect analogy because we're, as the future student, recruitment team, we're united in trying to get the best out of the technology that we have and improve the onboarding of students and the experience overall. And, you know, as it says here, climbing the mountain is very tough and many will be dragged down by the waters and very few can be found on the higher peaks. And I think that's, I think, a testament to UNSW and being innovative. I think we're one of the first in Australia to be using Acutix and also to try and get that unified view of our marketing and web data. So that leads me to kind of the segue into Chris's presentation where, you know, and Christian, you mentioned this earlier, there is no silver bullet. This is actually something that I found at one of our own symposiums, the UNSW Marketing Analytics Symposium, where I think maybe, Christian, you guys would be suited to present next year. Wink, wink. But it's, this, as you said, this research was, it was quite a fascinating piece of research. I won't go through the numbers as you did previous, but it's the conversations that we want to have with our agencies. We want to be able to find out, you know, what our best media mix is. What, not, you know, what is our optimal mix for each campaign? We don't want to talk about, you know, you know, are those the right number of clicks coming through? Are those the right conversion? Hang on a second. You know, our platform says this, your guys says this, you know, what's going on? We want to, we want to be able to have the conversations, those proactive conversations about what that perfect mix is for that, specific audience or for that campaign and have those more proactive, those more positive engagements rather than kind of finger pointing, which has, which I've seen kind of over the last 10 years with many agencies coming through the university. So that, that, that about rounds out my presentation. Thanks very much for, for the time given for this. And yeah, I'm looking forward to the, the next steps with the Qtics. Yeah, definitely. And that's a few questions. I have one myself that I actually wanted to start with. Now that you have this much increased quality of campaign data, do you feel that you are able to take decisions quicker than you were able to before? I think so. Look, it's a, it's a tough one because we've got quite a few, we've got a whole marketing team that works on digital campaigns. So it's, it is, we are very much at the, early stages of kind of standing up the process that involves the Qtics products. And, but, but it is very much on the, it's very much looking up, you know, we used to use, or we still use to this day, an Excel sheet to use a URL for, as a URL builder. And we're slowly going to be migrating that to the Qtics standardized product. And, you know, that's, that's going to be, going to create a few efficiencies for the team, which will allow them to kind of react or, or stand up campaigns quicker in my books. Yeah. We have a question here from TJ. So he, he has this, let me see if I can get it out. Can I do that? Can you see the question? No, you can't see it. I don't know why I can't show it. Oh, there we go. So big uncertainty due to the consent management. How did you get around all of the consent piece, like consenting to cookies and so forth? That actually sits with another, with the web content management team. So it is not something that I personally deal with. So I would have to get, get back to you on that. Yeah. I actually have a little bit of a, from, from another partner, they were doing a big cookie check and they actually found that the people that are interested in buying something, they, they will in most cases actually accept cookies. So you get a pretty good understanding of the quality traffic. That you've generated not so much on the general traffic. Yeah. I find from my own personal behavior that I always kind of just click, except to all cookies all the time, just to get rid of that, that screen. It's the quickest way. Usually I think that's because we're all used to the data, right? We want, we want, we want to know what it does with that. What people do with that data. That's right. Help those poor markets. Yes. No, I had the, I had another question for you, because it's, so I saw this nuclear research where they talked about the half-life of data and you have like these different separations, like tactical data, you have operational data and you have strategic data. And then that tactical data actually has a very short, short life. Like it will die very, very fast. The value of it, at least. Is, is this something you're talking about internally at the university? I think with the, advent of, you know, the cookie-less tracking, it is definitely on, on our discussion list. And I, and, you know, we're the, I guess the difference with the university compared with other, other sectors or the higher education sector in general, is that we're, we're dealing with, you know, the all stages of someone's kind of life after, or life from high school onwards. So we really, we're really after that, CRM data that can be held and used across many years. So it's, yeah, that's, it's an interesting one. Yeah. I don't know what the future holds with the, with the cookie-less data and GA4 and Adobe analytics, but it does still, as we kind of mentioned before, as you mentioned before, before the webinar, it's all about the CDP next, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. And I think this is a really good levy to, to get you introduced, Chris. I think, yeah, getting that foundation in place. So Chris' agency has been working a lot with implementing HubSpot and other CRM solutions, making sure that customers actually get that data sorted out and in one place and all of the automation that you want to have happening on that, all the CDP or the real-time CDP stuff. But Chris, I'll let you start your presentation from here. Yeah. Thanks, Christian and Adam. I suppose, just, just a build on what Adam was saying just at the end of his presentation is that, you know, agencies generally have this love-hate relationship with their clients and then you have these, these battles over data and who's right and who's wrong and, and what is the foundation of, of the, the data that you report on and how do you report? So this is, this is a really good topic and conversation for me because, you know, there is so much click forward and there is so much third-party data that we as agencies rely on that, that, that sometimes is, is completely inaccurate. So throughout today, I sort of want to take on a little bit of a journey on, on, on how we go from the over-reliance on third-party data being, being your, your, your Googles and your, and your Metas and your, and your, your CDPs and all the rest, right? Through to what does the ideal state look like? I've put together a little bit of a presentation here. However, I'll go through it a little bit quickly because the last screen is, is really where I want to spend some time with everyone on the, on the call today. But, you know, what is campaign structured data? Christian gave a really good introduction to that. The different types of, of, of data that, that, you know, you should be trying to capture and structure are customer demographics, sales figures, you know, website traffic, social media engagement, email and ad performance data. You know, there's, there's lots more, but, but, but a good basis to start structuring and start thinking about before you launch your campaigns. There's so much reasons why, and we've gone through it. Adam's gone through it a lot and, and Christian gave a really good, good introduction. But at the end of the day, having really good, good structure at the beginning, taking that all the way through, through your, through your campaigns into, into your single source of truth that Adam mentioned is really what's going to give you that, that competitive advantage. We'll have a look at some structures on how, how we do that today. But what, where can we collect that structured data campaign? You know, you, yes, we've got our web analytics. We can be looking in our CRM systems, our social media monitoring, our email platforms, our ad performance data. You know, there's so many different sources these days. And, and I know with, with Christian and, and, and his development team at, at Acutix, they're, they're forever working on different data points and different data sources to be able to make sure they all, all connect them together. So I see this as being a really, a point that evolves over time. I don't think we're going to have one single stream of data that we can just set and forget. I think as, as agencies, as marketers, as business owners, what we want to do is make sure that we're always looking for new sources of, of data to be able to draw on our campaign to, to get those insights from and to connect the traffic to a, to an idea of some, some point, right? With the, the way in which privacy is going, the, the, the, the cookie list tracking, we don't get as much rich data as we used to get from, from our campaign. So we have to overlay that with, with something. So the, the stream of information we get, we need to sometimes use two or three different data points to, to, to try and get an idea of, of who that customer or potential customer is. And then we need to analyze it, right? So, you know, and we do that through data visualization. We need to do statistical analysis. The advent of a lot of machine learning coming out. But, but, you know, to its core, what we find is there's a lot of clients still, still looking at, at the foundational work around AB testing, you know, trying different messaging, trying different ways of, of overlaying data to see if they can get the right mix of, of that, that, that information of that customer. But as promised, this is where I sort of want to, want to, want to talk, you know, it's a, it's a, it's an infographic that I put together because I think it paints a really good picture of how, what the ideal state looks like. You know, and when we talk about the foundation of structured data, we're, we're really talking about how do you set up your tracking codes and how do you validate that those tracking codes are actually working? As Adam said, you know, there was, there was a large portion of his, of his ads had an issue of some description on, on, on getting that click through to a, to a page. He also mentioned that, you know, in, in conversations I had with Adam, he manages over a thousand different web pages, websites. And, and, you know, in that, in its own, it's going to breed a lot of, a lot of complexity around where is the URLs going? Is, are they valid? Is there anything blocking the site from loading? Is the page speed right? You know, so making sure that foundation's right, the structured data, the tracking codes and validating that the end, the end URL is, is where, where it really needs to go. We used to, sorry, sorry, Adam, down to a hundred now. Good. All right. He's consolidated. Love it. Third party data. You know, that is where us as agencies and, and as, as marketers, we used to live. That's where we used to get all of our, all of our data from DSPs, your metas, your LinkedIn, Google being, and, and others. But we, we get those others via those tags and campaign links with cookie list tracking with the advent of privacy and, and Apple's Apple's lovely new rules. We, we find we need to transition that from, from third party data to, to our own data. And how do we do that? We, we overlay that, that campaign data through third party into your gated content and your conversion points. What are they? You know, your shopping carts, any forms and registrations, downloads that you, that you might have. Downloadables are great. And, and also with, with chat, they all form and push data into your analytics programs that come back out into your, to your CRMs and data warehouses, which can be, as Christian mentioned, HubSpot, Salesforce, could be ERPs or your warehouse management systems, whatever that might look like is, is where you really start to see a full picture of your customer. If you have the right data sets and, and the, and structured into your CRM in, in the same way that your campaign data is created, that'll drop out of that will be your visualization, the validation that, that everything is, is working well, which will give the businesses insights and, and essentially allows you to own that data then to feed back into your marketing. And, and from my point of view, that's where your real competitive advantage lives. Oh, you're on, you're on mute there, Christian. Yes, I'm on mute. Sorry about that. I wanted to jump in here because it's, it's quite interesting. And I think there's a lot here, maybe that a lot of companies are not doing. So how, how can you collect some of those metadata in your forms, et cetera? How can you get that into HubSpot or into other CRM systems? Yeah. So, you know, a lot of the, the work around that can be done with hidden form fields. It can be done via your link, link tracking. So, a lot, a lot of the work, you know, when you're talking about the, the way in which Adobe analytics creates the, the, the tracking code, and it might just, just be a CID and a, and a number at the end of it, that number behind that can be a whole suite of, of, of tracking and analytics data, but behind that, right? So we have behind the link is, is a lot of data that we can append to it. And then we, we know the source, so the different, different channels that the clients are coming from, customers are coming from, and inside the forms and on the pages, on the websites is where we really do get some technology in there to, to look at history. If, if, if they're repeating customers, whether, whether there is any owned data and, and, and cookie world or, or cookie list, we're able to still get some data from, from that. Yeah. Yeah. There's been a lot of the stuff happening around the cookies, right? So, the third party cookies are basically dead, at least on all the Apple devices that are out there, which is, I think when you, if you do social media marketing, it's basically anything that you've got to hit, right? Or anyone, other than you that are on, on Android. But I think it's, it's, it's really interesting, this, this piece that we have to kind of develop ourselves. We have to kind of move into a new world because the world has changed with the stuff that has come up, especially from Apple, but also that will come up from Google very soon. Where the third party cookie is not going to exist. I'm not going to go into too much of a detail here, but a third party cookie is basically something you allow another company to put on the people that are visiting your webpage. It's also completely insane when you think about it. So someone gets to put something into the browser that is, that you have nothing to do with, right? And, and in most cases, and for most normal consumers, they would have no idea what they're actually accepting when they're accepting cookies. Right. That now this piece of information will continue with you forever, everywhere else you go. It's yeah, it's crazy. So I'm really happy that this is something that's going to be sorted out and that we can just use this first party cookies and, and where you're actually going to a homepage and you are allowing that homepage to understand that you're there and what you're doing there. I think that's completely fair, but all the other stuff, I think it's also good that that's, that's ending these days. But, um, it certainly, it certainly made, it certainly made sense. It certainly made, um, uh, the transition a lot faster to, to having own data. You know, it was very easy for a very long period of time for us to be able to just rely on, um, on the word of, of Google and Meta and LinkedIn and all the others. And, and that's where we, where we as agencies, you know, came up against clients to go, Oh, you know what? Some of those reports that you send through is not really reflective in the results we're getting or in the conversions we're getting, or it doesn't really look like the right number. And that's what Adam was talking about earlier on. Um, and, and until you, you transition that away from, from, you know, the conflicted, um, um, um, organizations that you pay them to do advertising. And then they tell you the results that you get to a, to a position of, of strength where, where, okay, yes, you're going to be able to do advertising. You're going to rely on, on some of the data, but you're going to overlay your own data that to, to ensure that you've got a more accurate and, um, a more sustainable way of, of, of being informed and making better decisions for, for the businesses. Yeah, I think it's a, it's a very good step and then it's definitely the step in the right direction. And I hope it's, it's something that, that will be even faster transition everyone away from the third party. It shouldn't really exist these days. It is a little bit insane. Um, Chris, I wanted to ask you something else. So I've seen quite a lot of posts around the internet around like looking at, instead of looking at MQLs, you know, marketing qualified leads to actually start looking a little bit more at. Yeah. What actually became something and, and, and turning that back and actually doing like this. And then there's analysis. I know Adam, in your case, you're, you're working with students, so it might take some time before you land the first time on the university. So you're working with students, so it might take some time before you land the first time on the university. So you're working with students, so it might take some time before you land the first time on the university. Um, but that whole like, uh, life cycle and looking back at campaigns that were actually performing or assets or ads and so forth. Is that something that, that you're also seeing like more companies starting to do? Well, as, as, um, the CRMs, um, uh, become more powerful and, and I'm talking primarily here, HubSpot and Salesforce is where, where, where my experience is. Um, they now allow you to, to capture all of the data and, and do campaigns, um, based on, um, a customer, not just a lead. Uh, so it looks at what, what were the behaviors of somebody on, on website or, or, or campaigns? Where did they come from? How did they interact with your site before they became, um, a lead? And then, you know, there's a time that, that, that goes by before they become a customer. As soon as you mark them as a customer, then, then, then it tells the CRMs, all right, this is, this is, um, the, um, this is how they behave beforehand. So we make a lot of, uh, we see a lot of changes now, um, in, in, um, how we're running campaigns. But not only that, we can also turn off campaigns that generate a lot of leads that don't turn into customers because, because, because the whole, um, process is now connected. I wanted to ask you, Adam, because now you're here and you're on the customer side, right? Um, how, is this something that you're working with as well? Like looking a bit more down funnel? Well, it's, I think it, it's, for us, it was, uh, very much about getting those foundations, right? So we have that clean data to be able to report against, to be able to then analyze and get insights out of. Um, so, you know, there, there, there was a lot of, there has been a lot of internal discussion about what those MQLs are actually defined as, um, uh, because, because that's, that has changed a lot over the recent years. And with, you know, new, uh, our new website coming out over the, over the last year or two and the consolidation of sites, there's, you know, there's many other avenues to get to, uh, let's say an app, a new student application. Um, but we're all also coming out, you know, the being an institution of this size, you know, we're looking into those short courses, uh, you know, thanks to, uh, the, the pandemic, um, and having, you know, that uplift in interest in short courses and having those online courses. So that's something that we're looking into. So that, that will apply even more, I'd say. Uh, so that's definitely on the horizon. It's brilliant. Um, I wanted to just, uh, yeah, maybe like what's, what would you do if like give a good advice to, to the people that are in the webinar? Uh, let's start with you, Adam. What would be the best advice? To give to the people here? Well, I think, um, you know, uh, having, uh, those, those reasons of why you want to capture pieces of data and what you're going to do with it. That's for me is the utmost importance. It's almost like, you know, the digital is nice, but, uh, have that pencil and paper. You sit down with your team and decide, and, you know, find out what you actually want out of collecting that data is what I've seen, uh, you know, the last 10 years of university, plenty of reports go out. And I think, uh, Frederick even mentioned that one of these, uh, directors used to get 600 reports a month and they never, never looked at one. Um, so we want to be able to provide, you know, the, those live dashboards with actually meaningful things and, and actions out of them. So you have that holistic, uh, you know, you have that loop, uh, that life cycle loop of even, you know, when you're developing new, new, uh, so-called products within the university, or when there's website features that you want to have them with, uh, you know, data driven website features so that they're either collecting a new piece of data. They are there that are adding, you know, information to your CRM that you can then use to, uh, improve that, um, onboarding experience or, uh, and the like, hopefully that answers your question. Um, but yeah, it starts with the basic, it's almost like, uh, you know, uh, story, storyboarding for a movie, you know, you, you have to start with those basic, uh, ideas and then go from there. Yeah. I guess like it's, uh, building a business case for every single thing that you're doing. Right. And, and actually get approved and told in the organization, we're going to collect this data because we're going to figure this out and we can use it for ABCD. Exactly. How about you, Chris? What, what would you say is, uh, like, yeah, what would be your best advice? I think, I think because we, we see a lot of different, um, technology and marketing stacks with, with the clients that we work with and every, every business works with. So something in the vicinity of 15 different platforms or SAS products that, uh, on average, our clients are using and paying for. And, and, and I think, you know, to, to really pair all of that back and try and simplify, uh, the, um, your, your, your MarTech stack to, that will allow you to have less data, data points to try and integrate into everything and to try and have a, have a seamless funnel to, to get to that, um, idealistic state of having all the data run into your CRM and having a single source of truth for the customer. Um, but if you're, if you're running 15 different, um, software packages and platforms and having to try and integrate all of those into it, um, you will, you will find that that's, that's just a, a very expensive task. Um, and it just takes so long to do it. And you, you always fought with, with, um, conflicting data that, that, that needs to be resolved. So, um, before you, before you try and add too much to your marketing stack, try and strip it right back to the bare minimum and then work towards your single source of truth. And then think about, is there any other software that you really, really need to, to, to plug into it? That gives you the best chance of having clean structured data that you can trust and rely on. Yeah. I think that's a brilliant advice. And it's something that I'm also seeing quite a bit. So you're doing like, you have a taxonomy within your social media management tool. You have a taxonomy within your HubSpot. You have a taxonomy within your email marketing. If you have another solution that HubSpot for that, you have so many different taxonomies for how you collect data and all of it, all of them are different and all of them are, are not, not connected. And then you get all of those reports out and you need to stitch them together to even get, uh, any idea about how the performance is. And again, people are in many different media, right? So when I'm looking around, I'll be in Instagram, I'll be in my email, I'll be on some of the newspapers pages that I'm, that I'm following and, and so forth. Right. So you have many different interactions and all of us like, and, and the brands, they have no idea because it all lives in silos. Right. So, so I, I completely agree that getting that sorted would, would be very smart. I have a question. Uh, I think, no, it's actually just someone saying that they need to drop off, but I also think we, we got to the end of this. Um, thank you so much, both to you, Adam, and to you, Chris, for, for taking the time to, to tell your story and give some, some advice here. Um, we'll share the slides and we'll share the recording. Uh, so if there's anything you want to rewatch, uh, you can easily do that. And then, uh, do like Adam said, uh, go check out all of those nice webinars. Uh, I think some of them are amazing. I think, yeah. Indie Christodina and, and Augustin Fowl, they, they really come with a lot of knowledge and understanding in, in this field and they can really help. Uh, there was a lot of stuff for me that was completely mind, mind blowing and, and I had no idea that it was this bad. So, uh, yeah. Thank you all. And, uh, I'm going to close this down now. Thanks everyone. Bye-bye. Go city.